FIC
I was directed to a list the other day called the FIC. I had a look at the names and thought I don't really know many of them but what a great bunch the ones I do know. And I am on that list! someone must think highly of me for some reason. So what does the FIC mean you ask?. I had been hoping it meant Friendly Inner Child or something. Actually it stands for Fetid Inner Core. I thought to myself that Fetid is not a word you strive to be associated with. [fet-id, fee-tid] Show IPA
–adjective
JenzZa Misfit- I know JenzZa but not too well.
Gentle Heron -don't know UPDATE Heron Sanctuary, a support community for people with disabilities Aree Lulibub
Grace McDunnough - Grace is a top musical artist in sl. Had a great performance show called Mummersion which was on my top ten list last year. Here was my post if you want to know what it was.. Mummersion
Olando7 Decosta-don't know
MarkTwain White-don't know
Raven Pennyfeather-don't know
Samuel Frost-don't know
Wraith Unsung-don't know
Harper Beresford - I have met harper before, she is on the business side of things if I recall correctly.
Kittrannia Cassini-don't know
Pookie Amsterdam - talk show host
Paisley Beebe - talk show host
Moundsa Mayo-don't know
Botqirl Questi - has a popular blog.
Noosphere
Peter Imari (and other SLCC 2010 board & volunteers)
Wiz Norberg-don't know
Misty Rhodes-don't know
Cybin Monde-don't know
Ham Rambler-don't know
Traven Sachs-don't know
Isablan Neva-don't know
Orhalla Zander - orhalla created a great machinima of his travels a few years ago which was acclaimed. Also a second life hobo.
Esbee Linden - don't know UPDATE - designed viewer 2.0 thx Valenine Easterwood
Ordinal Malaprop - probably the best scripter in sl.
Carl Metropolitan- don't know
Lilith Heart - don't know UPDATE - "Sis to Dolly Heart of Heart Gardens" Aree Lulibub (still not sure what that means)
Julia Hathor - the singer for ChouChou? or am i mistaken? UPDATE julia hathor is a long time prefab builder and does a lot of charity work... thank you cole
Larry Pixel- Larry is in charge of a vast horde of sims for universities ranging from Princeton to Harvard. Tayzia Abbatoir who was not mentioned here, is a huge help to Larry especially in promoting SL arts.
Fleep Tuque-don't know
Racer Gullwing - Racer was the creator of the Giant Snail Races which have been quite popular.
Steller Sunshine-don't know
Pituca Fairchang-don't know
Eric Linden-don't know
Ryan Linden-don't know
Suezanne Baskerville-don't know
Slim Warrior-don't know UPDATE - "Active in SL music entertainment community. 1st UK musician to perform in SL. Founder SL Music Community Forum." Aree Luliub
Philip Linden - need i say anything
Circe Broom - Circe is a huge force behind the promotion of SL music.
Jack Linden-don't know
Salazar Jack-don't know UPDATE - the head (or atleast one of the heads of)the Phyneas Jack Memorial Trust, an organization dedicated to preserving a swath of virtual forest (Kahruvel)thx Valentine Eaterwood
Malburns Writer - prolific media person
Tara Yeats-don't know
Barney Boomslang - hosted and supported the popular "show and tell" event where builders would come and show new work and win prizes. A great light hearted community event for years.
Naughty Mole-don't know
Glamor Mole-don't know
Misty Mole-don't know
Michael Linden-don't know
Guy Linden-don't know
Alliez Mysterio-don't know
Anshe Chung-don't know -UPDATE -"is one of the largest land barons... the Dreamland sims are hers, if I recall correctly." thank you Loraan
Guni Greenstein-don't know
Ziggy Figaro-don't know
Cylindrian Rutabega-don't know
Angela Talamasca-don't know
Boliver Oddfellow-don't know
Quirky McArdle-don't know
Scope Cleaver - reclusive architect who has created some of the best architectural builds in sl.
Frogg Marlowe-don't know UPDATE - "Frogg Marlowe and Jaycatt Nico - very popular music duo "Frogg and Jaycatt."" Aree Lulibub
Jaycatt Nico-don't know
Beth Odets-don't know
Zha Ewry-don't know UPDATE - "IBM employee and active in SL's Architecture Working Group" Aree Lulibub
Osprey Therein-I might have mixed up Osprey with Orhalla Zander.
Jer Straaf-don't know
Ann Otoole -
having an offensive odor; stinking.
Ouch. I am part of a stinky inner core of something. Oh well not everyone is going to like you. The thing is that I am not really offended as I respect many of the people on this list. Granted I don't know most of them. Also it's kind of refreshing for someone to not tip toe around being nice. The person who made the list is named Prokovsky Neva and I would love to see a feud start up between him/her and Saveme Oh. A kind of pay-per-view thing. " SAVEME OH vs PROK! - the reconing" Something like that. Not sure who I would place my money on there. For fun I have decided to put a little point form summary of what I do know of some people on this list. If you would like to go read the original article it is here. If i put "don't know" beside someones name it doesn't mean they don't do great or terrible stuff it just shows how much of a hermit I am. If you have more info on what these people do then feel free to post in the comments.
FIC 2.13 -- mal-FIC
Nany Kayo - don't know
Darrius Gothly - don't know
Dartagan Shepherd - don't know
Pamela Galli - don't know
Torley Linden - how can anyone not like Torley? I saw a video of him making music once and he just seemed so happy and enthusiastic about it.
Hamlet Au- Hamlet was originally an employee of Linden Labs and now has the popular site New World Notes. He seems like a nice guy to me, definately a very hard worker. Posts everyday for years now, and has done some big interviews with people such as Cory Doctorow and others. Also wrote a book on SL which have seen in a Chapters/Indigo bookstore by me. (Indigo=giant big box bookstore)
Latif Khalifa don't know UPDATE - "Very useful megaprim search engine" - Valentine Easterwood
Phil Deakins don't know
Imnotgoing Sideways don't know
Deltango Vale don't know
Dirk Talamasca - I know Dirk!. He is a nice person but I have no idea what he does. Now I am curious. Oh I think he works with Relay for Life.
Crap Mariner - Crap is a really nice guy too. He has a blog and does tons for the music scene in Second Life. Really funny too.
Jumpman Lane - I met Jumpman once and in the process of checking his profile I discovered he was some kind of SL porn king.
Soft Linden- don't know
Alexa Linden- Alexa does the Mesh group I believe. Works to implement mesh imports so we can get new designers who would be able to use high end computer graphics programs such as Maya and 3D Studiomax, Zbrush and good old open source Blender.
Chance Unknown don't know
Maggie Darwin - don't know
Baeric Constantine- don't know
Wayfinder Wishbringer- don't know
Strife Onizuka- don't know
Dale Innis - I think I know Dale. UPDATE - scripter extraordinaire
Pixeleen Mistral - don't know UPDATE - "Controversial Alphaville Herald writer" Aree Lulibub
Jessica Holyoke- don't know
Tenshi Vielle- don't know
RightasRain Rimbaud - RAR is the head of Rezzable creations who I have done a few projects for. One one side it was great to have a company that actually paid artists to create. They paid good rates too. On the other side they had a bad reputation for not paying artists and my old friend Spiral Walcher was very bitter towards them I recall. They did pay me for my projects but one time it took ages to get paid. I also have a 10 thousand prim build where I placed each part individually on their private sim. It's called Crosshatch. Part of the contract was I would get this builder buddy they developed so that I could copy entire sims I have created. So for example I could copy my entire Standby sim at IBM with the click of a button. They gave me a broken version and this Foolish Frost person made no attempt to help me with it. Also I tried to get there to make a copy of the build using Imprudence viewer and lost my ability to log on to the sim. I asked for help and again nothing. So essentially I have no copy of my build. That's my story about RAR.
Eshi Otawara - I don't really know eshi - UPDATE fashion designer - thanks Loraan
Fiz Baskerville - don't know
FIC 2.7 -- Bestest FIC and Beta Mesh FIC
Candy Cerveau - don't know - UPDATE "one of the developers of Ozimals breedable bunnies." Aree Lulibub
Aeron Constantine- don't know
Gavin Hird- don't know
Chestnut Rau- Chestnut writes a column for New World Notes. Really nice girl.
Runitai Linden- don't know
Aki Shichiroji- don't know
Amiryu Hosoi- don't know
Draxtor Despres- Draxtor wrote some really nasty things about Dusan Writer who is my patron. Really over the top rotten things. Lost a lot of respect for him.
Filthy Fluno - Filthy is an artist who had an article written about him in the New York Times.
AM Radio - One of the best artists SL has ever had.
Desmond Shang- don't know - UPDATE "is the "guvnor" of Caledon, probably the biggest steampunk community." - thanks Loraan
DanielRavenNest Noe- don't know
Ciaran Lavan- don't know
Jarnz Dench- don't know
Dusan Writer - Dusan has a very well thought out site call Dusan Writers Metaverse He does Metanomics, he is an ardent supporter of SL and also gave me Immersiva paying for everything without ever asking for a single thing. So I have had Immersiva for years now and he has literally paid for everything just to let me create. And over that time we have probably spoken 10 times. He has no agenda, just wanted to support me. I can't say enough about Dusan, one of the greatest people in SL.
Qie Niangao-don't know
Holocluck Henly- builder?
Daniel Voyager-don't know UPDATE - really active person on the teen grid
Vryl Valkyrie-don't know
Suspiria Finucane -don't know
Nika Talaj-don't know
Tateru Nino - i know the name, I believe Tateru is on the media side of things.
Scylla Rhiadra -don't know
Inara Pey-don't know
Rene Erlanger-don't know
Valiant Westland-don't know
Trinity Nabob-don't know
Callie Cline - Callie Cline is arguably the first and most famous second life fashion model. Also a designer.
Ingrid Ingersoll-don't know
Melody Regent-don't know
Jacek Antonelli-don't know
McCabe Maxsted-don't know
Hiroaki Rhino -don't know
Jahar Aabye-don't know
Lyndon Heart-don't know UPDATE - "Popular SL musician/singer" Aree Lulibub
Bryn Oh - don't know
Phaylen Fairchild - Phaylen has been in sl ages and creates some of the best machinima out there. She has a series of hilarious SL meets WOW shows. They are called DIVAS.
Nany Kayo - don't know
Darrius Gothly - don't know
Dartagan Shepherd - don't know
Pamela Galli - don't know
Torley Linden - how can anyone not like Torley? I saw a video of him making music once and he just seemed so happy and enthusiastic about it.
Hamlet Au- Hamlet was originally an employee of Linden Labs and now has the popular site New World Notes. He seems like a nice guy to me, definately a very hard worker. Posts everyday for years now, and has done some big interviews with people such as Cory Doctorow and others. Also wrote a book on SL which have seen in a Chapters/Indigo bookstore by me. (Indigo=giant big box bookstore)
Latif Khalifa don't know UPDATE - "Very useful megaprim search engine" - Valentine Easterwood
Phil Deakins don't know
Imnotgoing Sideways don't know
Deltango Vale don't know
Dirk Talamasca - I know Dirk!. He is a nice person but I have no idea what he does. Now I am curious. Oh I think he works with Relay for Life.
Crap Mariner - Crap is a really nice guy too. He has a blog and does tons for the music scene in Second Life. Really funny too.
Jumpman Lane - I met Jumpman once and in the process of checking his profile I discovered he was some kind of SL porn king.
Soft Linden- don't know
Alexa Linden- Alexa does the Mesh group I believe. Works to implement mesh imports so we can get new designers who would be able to use high end computer graphics programs such as Maya and 3D Studiomax, Zbrush and good old open source Blender.
Chance Unknown don't know
Maggie Darwin - don't know
Baeric Constantine- don't know
Wayfinder Wishbringer- don't know
Strife Onizuka- don't know
Dale Innis - I think I know Dale. UPDATE - scripter extraordinaire
Pixeleen Mistral - don't know UPDATE - "Controversial Alphaville Herald writer" Aree Lulibub
Jessica Holyoke- don't know
Tenshi Vielle- don't know
RightasRain Rimbaud - RAR is the head of Rezzable creations who I have done a few projects for. One one side it was great to have a company that actually paid artists to create. They paid good rates too. On the other side they had a bad reputation for not paying artists and my old friend Spiral Walcher was very bitter towards them I recall. They did pay me for my projects but one time it took ages to get paid. I also have a 10 thousand prim build where I placed each part individually on their private sim. It's called Crosshatch. Part of the contract was I would get this builder buddy they developed so that I could copy entire sims I have created. So for example I could copy my entire Standby sim at IBM with the click of a button. They gave me a broken version and this Foolish Frost person made no attempt to help me with it. Also I tried to get there to make a copy of the build using Imprudence viewer and lost my ability to log on to the sim. I asked for help and again nothing. So essentially I have no copy of my build. That's my story about RAR.
Eshi Otawara - I don't really know eshi - UPDATE fashion designer - thanks Loraan
Fiz Baskerville - don't know
FIC 2.7 -- Bestest FIC and Beta Mesh FIC
Candy Cerveau - don't know - UPDATE "one of the developers of Ozimals breedable bunnies." Aree Lulibub
Aeron Constantine- don't know
Gavin Hird- don't know
Chestnut Rau- Chestnut writes a column for New World Notes. Really nice girl.
Runitai Linden- don't know
Aki Shichiroji- don't know
Amiryu Hosoi- don't know
Draxtor Despres- Draxtor wrote some really nasty things about Dusan Writer who is my patron. Really over the top rotten things. Lost a lot of respect for him.
Filthy Fluno - Filthy is an artist who had an article written about him in the New York Times.
AM Radio - One of the best artists SL has ever had.
Desmond Shang- don't know - UPDATE "is the "guvnor" of Caledon, probably the biggest steampunk community." - thanks Loraan
DanielRavenNest Noe- don't know
Ciaran Lavan- don't know
Jarnz Dench- don't know
Dusan Writer - Dusan has a very well thought out site call Dusan Writers Metaverse He does Metanomics, he is an ardent supporter of SL and also gave me Immersiva paying for everything without ever asking for a single thing. So I have had Immersiva for years now and he has literally paid for everything just to let me create. And over that time we have probably spoken 10 times. He has no agenda, just wanted to support me. I can't say enough about Dusan, one of the greatest people in SL.
Qie Niangao-don't know
Holocluck Henly- builder?
Daniel Voyager-don't know UPDATE - really active person on the teen grid
Vryl Valkyrie-don't know
Suspiria Finucane -don't know
Nika Talaj-don't know
Tateru Nino - i know the name, I believe Tateru is on the media side of things.
Scylla Rhiadra -don't know
Inara Pey-don't know
Rene Erlanger-don't know
Valiant Westland-don't know
Trinity Nabob-don't know
Callie Cline - Callie Cline is arguably the first and most famous second life fashion model. Also a designer.
Ingrid Ingersoll-don't know
Melody Regent-don't know
Jacek Antonelli-don't know
McCabe Maxsted-don't know
Hiroaki Rhino -don't know
Jahar Aabye-don't know
Lyndon Heart-don't know UPDATE - "Popular SL musician/singer" Aree Lulibub
Bryn Oh - don't know
Phaylen Fairchild - Phaylen has been in sl ages and creates some of the best machinima out there. She has a series of hilarious SL meets WOW shows. They are called DIVAS.
JenzZa Misfit- I know JenzZa but not too well.
Gentle Heron -don't know UPDATE Heron Sanctuary, a support community for people with disabilities Aree Lulibub
Grace McDunnough - Grace is a top musical artist in sl. Had a great performance show called Mummersion which was on my top ten list last year. Here was my post if you want to know what it was.. Mummersion
Olando7 Decosta-don't know
MarkTwain White-don't know
Raven Pennyfeather-don't know
Samuel Frost-don't know
Wraith Unsung-don't know
Harper Beresford - I have met harper before, she is on the business side of things if I recall correctly.
Kittrannia Cassini-don't know
Pookie Amsterdam - talk show host
Paisley Beebe - talk show host
Moundsa Mayo-don't know
Botqirl Questi - has a popular blog.
Noosphere
Peter Imari (and other SLCC 2010 board & volunteers)
Wiz Norberg-don't know
Misty Rhodes-don't know
Cybin Monde-don't know
Ham Rambler-don't know
Traven Sachs-don't know
Isablan Neva-don't know
Orhalla Zander - orhalla created a great machinima of his travels a few years ago which was acclaimed. Also a second life hobo.
Esbee Linden - don't know UPDATE - designed viewer 2.0 thx Valenine Easterwood
Ordinal Malaprop - probably the best scripter in sl.
Carl Metropolitan- don't know
Lilith Heart - don't know UPDATE - "Sis to Dolly Heart of Heart Gardens" Aree Lulibub (still not sure what that means)
Julia Hathor - the singer for ChouChou? or am i mistaken? UPDATE julia hathor is a long time prefab builder and does a lot of charity work... thank you cole
Larry Pixel- Larry is in charge of a vast horde of sims for universities ranging from Princeton to Harvard. Tayzia Abbatoir who was not mentioned here, is a huge help to Larry especially in promoting SL arts.
Fleep Tuque-don't know
Racer Gullwing - Racer was the creator of the Giant Snail Races which have been quite popular.
Steller Sunshine-don't know
Pituca Fairchang-don't know
Eric Linden-don't know
Ryan Linden-don't know
Suezanne Baskerville-don't know
Slim Warrior-don't know UPDATE - "Active in SL music entertainment community. 1st UK musician to perform in SL. Founder SL Music Community Forum." Aree Luliub
Philip Linden - need i say anything
Circe Broom - Circe is a huge force behind the promotion of SL music.
Jack Linden-don't know
Salazar Jack-don't know UPDATE - the head (or atleast one of the heads of)the Phyneas Jack Memorial Trust, an organization dedicated to preserving a swath of virtual forest (Kahruvel)thx Valentine Eaterwood
Malburns Writer - prolific media person
Tara Yeats-don't know
Barney Boomslang - hosted and supported the popular "show and tell" event where builders would come and show new work and win prizes. A great light hearted community event for years.
Naughty Mole-don't know
Glamor Mole-don't know
Misty Mole-don't know
Michael Linden-don't know
Guy Linden-don't know
Alliez Mysterio-don't know
Anshe Chung-don't know -UPDATE -"is one of the largest land barons... the Dreamland sims are hers, if I recall correctly." thank you Loraan
Guni Greenstein-don't know
Ziggy Figaro-don't know
Cylindrian Rutabega-don't know
Angela Talamasca-don't know
Boliver Oddfellow-don't know
Quirky McArdle-don't know
Scope Cleaver - reclusive architect who has created some of the best architectural builds in sl.
Frogg Marlowe-don't know UPDATE - "Frogg Marlowe and Jaycatt Nico - very popular music duo "Frogg and Jaycatt."" Aree Lulibub
Jaycatt Nico-don't know
Beth Odets-don't know
Zha Ewry-don't know UPDATE - "IBM employee and active in SL's Architecture Working Group" Aree Lulibub
Osprey Therein-I might have mixed up Osprey with Orhalla Zander.
Jer Straaf-don't know
Ann Otoole -
So these are just some quick points I jotted down off the top of my head. They might not be terribly accurate and also might not be the main thing they do in sl, just the thing i know them for. Feel free to post in comments any additional info you have on anyone.
Comments
Don't bother poking Proky-poo with a pokey stick (though the 5000-word hateful diatribe that results is a kind of sicko fun). Not that you would; you are probably too busy making wonderful things to stoop as low as malcontents like me.
In any case, Prok's the biggest troll and conspiracy theorist on the InterWeb tubes relating to SL. The nicest thing about spending less time in Second Life has been the lack of Prokofy.
Then again, s/he may put you in the FIC as a compliment. She's been a member herself, I do believe.
As a layabout, hillbilly, and malcontent (my terms) and several less temperate monikers (Prok's), I don't expect to be on her FIC list for a while...oh boo hoo hoo woe is me.
Good luck with your next projects. They never fail to inspire.
I know a few of the names on here (although I don't know them personally).
Eshi Otawara is an amazing fashion designer, although I don't know if she is still active.
Desmond Shang is the "guvnor" of Caledon, probably the biggest steampunk community.
Anshe Chung is one of the largest land barons... the Dreamland sims are hers, if I recall correctly.
Proko must have made this namedropping up to get more hits on his sad bloggie.
Cole I think this is a list of bad people, so you want RAR on this list if you don't like him. I think there are tons of important people out there who are not on this list, but they are missing because they are not considered Fetid. So its good to not be on this list if I understand it correctly.
love your blog and work btw :)
i'm glad you said i was a model! i'm a designer too but have worked hard to not be pigeon holed there! yay i guess it worked :)
all the best.
callie
btw, there are some GREAT ppl on those lists, i don't i know many and the other comment was a joke, of sorts. :)
Really awesome SL artist. :)
> Dale Innis - I think I know Dale.
I think I gave you a generalized TP script to try out once, when one of the ones in one of your installations was broken. If you ever need any scripting help... :)
I mean, it starts off nice and all, but then the carolers start demanding figgy pudding.
I don't have any figgy pudding. I keep trying to tell them I don't have any figgy pudding, but it's right back to the chorus, and they're demanding it.
It's almost as bad as the zombies demanding brains, really, but at least the cops don't come around and hassle you over shooting THEM and burying their corpses in the back yard.
-ls/cm
Now my next Christmas will be better.
"There'll be parties for hosting,
marshmallows for toasting and
caroling out in the snow.
there'll be scary ghost stories and
tales of the glories of Christmases
long, long ago."
Scary ghost stories? What is this guy on about? there are no ghost stories at Christmas, that is called Halloween.
Bryn Oh = a pseudonym, name attached to unknown artist, but a name that has achieved some level of acclaim (deservedly so to be sure)
"I think I know Dale" Innis = who?,ergo more or less anonymous,
which leads me to the last point, being, what's the point of hogging these profound insights (cue guffaws) all to yer-self ms. bryn over a silly insistence that i put a sl name here that like most on your list above no one knows anyway, and please re post all deleted posts
Yours Truly,
Mr. Figgy Pudding
At least I am in the company of lots of people I respect and many who I don't know either Bryn.
My blog isn't a beacon of justice Mr Pudding. It's a little monster that demands I feed it once a week. I can type a variety of swear words...
Captain Fucky McShitbag
but I might not let you do it.
It really is unjust. But i am not a particularly good person. On one side I demand you put your name on insulting posts, which appears to place me on some type of moral high ground, yet I steal wireless from my neighbours, and I also like to throw stones at squirrels to see if I can hit them.
For example, I am going to delete your next comment regardless of what you say. I imagine it will be you retracting your previous views and declaring me a wonderful person, but nobody will ever know because on my wee blog I am drunk on power and fully corrupted.
http://danielvoyagerblog.wordpress.com/
A very active avatar in the teen grid until he got 18 I think.
Weird ... I'm not in the list ...
Personally, I took it as a great compliment, following in the vein of "You are defined by your enemies." The fact that Prok hates me and has devoted several of her precious blogs to blaspheming me, my parents, my family, my intelligence AND the modem I rode in on .. it's rather high praise IMO.
Thanks for allowing me to offer some viewpoints from my side of the wire.
/DG/
I once gave you a very glowing review. And I continued to like your stuff and still appreciate it. But something told me you didn't belong on the Noosphere list -- and I was right about that.
happy IBM!
http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2009/04/immersiva.html
Frogg Marlowe and Jaycatt Nico - very popular music duo "Frogg and Jaycatt."
Anshe Chung - Made first million US dollars from SL land deals.
Slim Warrior - Active in SL music entertainment community. 1st UK musician to perform in SL. Founder SL Music Community Forum.
Lilith Heart - Sis to Dolly Heart of Heart Gardens
Gentle Heron of Heron Sanctuary, a support community for people with disabilities.
Lyndon Heart - Popular SL musician/singer
Daniel Voyager - WAS active on teen grid and is now on adult grid.
Candy Cerveau - one of the developers of Ozimals breedable bunnies.
Pixeleen Mistral - Controversial Alphaville Herald writer.
Shows the reality of the "virtual community" and all the SL PR hype about community is..
"I DONT KNOW THEM"...lol
just great....
oh. and your lesson learned about RaR and technology vs others content.... nothing new.;)
"its just your shit- even when they are making a buck off it"
really- great post. All the thought leaders should now slit their wrists.... or have to end up like torley.;)
Trudme Ho fall dead by the by hehehehe
and Callie Cline i KNOW u werent referring to me caws u know u stopped breathing when i took my shirt off hehehehehehe
Esbee Linden designed viewer 2.0
If I remember correctly Anshe Chung was SL's first millionaire via her land barony. (You can actually find her in Wikipedia)
Salazar Jack is the head (or atleast one of the heads of)the Phyneas Jack Memorial Trust, an organization dedicated to preserving a swath of virtual forest (Kahruvel).
Holocluck Henly is a builder to my knowledge. He occasionally frequents Barney's show and tell. The last project of his I recall was a Jukebox that would play streams inworld via script. Don't know if he ever managed it.